My blogger-in-law, J…
My blogger-in-law, Jim Jewell (who blogs at Rooftop Blog and Stones Cry Out), brought to my attention a NY Times editorial over the weekend about Bill Frist speaking to religious folks about the judicial nomination issue. He couldn’t believe the amateurish writing from a supposedly tier A media organization, so I read it myself. As we talked about it, it seemed like we had a rebuttal for just about every line in it. I suggested to him we do a co-fisking of the article, and that’s what you see below. (Jim posted his at Rooftop Blog and Stones Cry Out.) We wrote our rebuttals separately without seeing the other’s first, so what we’re writing is only in response to the Times article, not each other’s words. Also, you may see some ideas presented by the both of us.
The editorial’s words are indented, my words are in red, Jim’s are in green.
Right off the bat, the Times frames this as a war of Bill Frist’s making. No mention of the way the Democrats are rewriting the Constitution to say that the Senate Judiciary Committee is now the “advice and consent” body rather than the Senate itself. And a “religious war”? We’ll see how the Times has redefined that term in a bit.
Right-wing Christian groups and the Republican politicians they bankroll…
Loaded language right from the start, which also gives the false impression that conservative Christians supply the vast majority of the money in Republican coffers. Sorry, don’t think so.
…have done much since the last election to impose their particular religious views on all Americans.
Not political views, mind you, but religious views. Yes, according to the NY Times, conservative Christians have imposed their belief in Jesus as the Son of God on the nation, enshrining it in legislation via our bankrolled politicians. No? Oh, then how about other religious views, like legislating the belief that the only God is the one described in the Christian Bible? No? Perhaps they’ve passed a law that we should only worship that particular God? Nope, not that either. In fact there is no Christian religious view that is in our laws at all, and no one is pushing for it to happen. The Times and the liberals that think like them may like to raise the spectre of a supposed push for a Christian theocracy, but there’s no politician in Washington doing anything close to that. It’s outright fear-mongering that one would have thought the Grey Lady to be above. Apparently not.
What conservative Christians have tried to do is get legislation passed on social or political or criminal issues that are consistent with their own values. And this just in; everybody does that. That’s what government and self-rule is for. But when conservative Christians try to do it, it’s somehow an “imposition” of their “religious views”. I’m sure there’s a number of KKK members who aren’t all that thrilled with civil rights legislation, yet technically we’ve imposed those views on them, and for very good reasons. So the whole idea of decrying the imposing of views is really intellectual dishonesty. The Times, anytime they advocate for any law, does the same thing.
What right-wing Christian group bankroll politicians? Most I know are asking for money from the same funding sources as the Republican politicians. The organization at issue here, Family Research Council, doesn’t fund politicians. It’s engaged in battle with words, not dollars. Christian groups haven’t “imposed” anything on “all Americans.” I hope they’ve made their views known in the public square. The Republican politicians haven’t done much of anything since November.
But nothing comes close to the shameful declaration of religious war by Bill Frist, the Senate majority leader, over the selection of judges for federal courts.
Appearing on a telecast sponsored by a 501 C 3 organization with religious and political purposes to lobby for his position on the judicial appointment is a declaration of religious war? Oh please. It’s Frist playing to his base, not exactly new in Washington. It is legitimate to ask whether the appointment of conservative judges is clearly important to Christian duty and concerns. Have the actions of liberal judges been un-Christian? Most evangelical Christians believe they have been. I think Frist does, too.
Senator Frist is to appear on a telecast sponsored by the Family Research Council, which styles itself a religious organization but is really just another Washington lobbying concern.
FRC is a lobbying concern run by Christians on behalf of Christian causes. There’s no hidden agenda here.
The message is that the Democrats who oppose a tiny handful of President Bush’s judicial nominations are conducting an assault “against people of faith.”
Tiny? I think its 10 so far. And there will be more if something isn’t done. Yes, unfortunately, there is no love lost between the Democrats and many people of faith. I think there is plenty of assaulting on both sides. The art of subtlety and common civility is lost on the ash heap of the last generation.
By that, Senator Frist and his allies do not mean people of all faiths, only those of their faith.
The same faith, by the way, that the Times won’t be intellectually honest about. Frist ought to be given some slack, as this kind of double-standard is used against conservative Christians in a lot of areas, and this Times editorial is just the latest example. I’ll agree that the term “people of faith” may be an overgeneralization, but there’s nothing wrong with trying to point out when people who believe the same things you do are getting a raw deal. The fact that they’re being held up because of concern that their religious views might show through is a de facto unconstitutional religious test, and worth bringing up. And even outside any views on any subject, since when do we have ideological litmus tests before confirming judges? (Answer: Since Democrats decided to do it.)
Where in the teachings of any major faith group do you find commendation of abortion on demand and same-sex marriage? Not Christianity, Islam, or Judaism. Maybe in the common faith groups-faith in faith, faith in self, faith in destiny, faith in money, faith in power. Yes, I think liberal judges have sullied people of faith.
It is one thing when private groups foment this kind of intolerance.
Huh? Arguing for conservative judges is fomenting intolerance?
The Times just had to find a way to use the word “intolerance” in a sentence here. And what’s odd is that they’re accusing Republicans of this, while the Democrats seem pretty intolerant of views they don’t agree with, so much so that they’re not giving these nominees the chance for an up-or-down vote. Who’s intolerant?
It is another thing entirely when it’s done by the highest-ranking member of the United States Senate, who swore on the Bible…
Heh heh…the irony is just dripping here. Why exactly did he swear on a Bible? Because our founding fathers were such “intolerant” guys?
…to uphold a Constitution that forbids the imposition of religious views on Americans.
…that, again, no one is trying to do. And remember, the Constitution says that our federal government may not have an established religion and thus not require a religious test for office-holders. Republicans are not trying to do anything like that. (Did anyone at the Times actually read the Constitution before writing that? Editors!) What Democrats are doing is trying to keep out those who hold religious views too seriously for their comfort. Again, that is the imposition.
I love this. The Times is citing the need for constitutional fidelity because of the Bible’s use in an oath. How ironic. Of course this constitutional prohibition on imposition of religious views is creative but inaccurate. Pretty wild interpretation of the establishment clause.
Unfortunately, Senator Frist and his allies are willing to break down the rules to push through their agenda – in this case, by creating what the senator knows is a false connection between religion and the debate about judges.
Christians who have many judicial rulings contrary their beliefs see a very real connection.
Whether or not you believe that religion has anything to do with this issue, there are no rules being broken, and the <redundant>Democrats and the Times</redundant> both know that the filibuster rule is in fine health. Apparently, the difference between changing the rules and breaking the rules needs to be understood better by some folks.
Senator Frist and his backers want to take away the sole tool Democrats have for resisting the appointment of unqualified judges: the filibuster.
False, there is another tool: Elections. But, in order for that to work, you have to, you know, win them. Democrats have lost them recently, and this is the spoils of winning; choosing your judges.
And all these judges are “unqualified”? Without qualification, that term is also certainly false, unless the Times is again redefining words. In this case, “unqualified” means “don’t agree with us”.
Everyone knows this isn’t about qualifications; it’s about ideology. Nice try. (Another tool is to get a majority in the Senate).
This is not about a majority or even a significant number of Bush nominees; it’s about a handful with fringe views or shaky qualifications.
10 nominees who were qualified by too conservative for the Democrats. I love when the liberals talk about the fringe. I guess when Democrats lose the White House, both Houses of Congress, and the majority of state houses, the fringe is really on the left, isn’t it?
But Senator Frist is determined to get judges on the federal bench who are loyal to the Republican fringe and, he hopes, would accept a theocratic test on decisions.
The search for strict constructionists has become a theocratic test. Such wild rhetoric.
False. The only folks looking for a theocratic test are Democrats opposing these judges. If they really did expect these guys to give all their decisions a “theocratic test”, then they really fouled this up. For example, William Pryor, who was being filibustered prior to his recess appointment, said he agreed that Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore was in the right with the 10 Commandments display in the Alabama Supreme Court building. Nevertheless, he followed the law as written and did his constitutional duty by having it removed. Does the Times think Pryor will employ a theocratic test? He’s proven quite plainly that he won’t. The Times is using an extremely broad brush on these folks, and if they’re wrong about Pryor (and they are), chances are they’re wrong about the others.
Senator Frist has an even bigger game in mind than the current nominees: the next appointments to the Supreme Court, which the Republican conservatives view as their best chance to outlaw abortion and impose their moral code on the country.
I think Frist is, indeed, thinking about the Supreme Court. Whose moral code is the court imposing on America now? The law is a moral teacher and, if you will, an imposer. It isn’t as though only one ideology seeks to transmit its views.
Links? Sources? And what of moral code double-standards? If outlawing abortion would be the imposition of a moral code, then the legalization of abortion was the imposition of another moral code, or at the very least a values-free look at the death of children, which at the very least is an imposition on those children. Once again the Times is basically saying, “I just change the law, you impose your moral code”.
We fully understand that a powerful branch of the Republican Party believes that the last election was won on “moral values.”
We didn’t say that first. The major networks, the pundits, and the polling experts did. They said moral values were a major factor in the election. Yes, we believed it.
Even if that were true, that’s a far cry from voting for one religion to dominate the entire country. President Bush owes it to Americans to stand up and say so.
I haven’t seen that particular piece of legislation. The Christian Domination of America bill.
Again I say, “Who’s voting for a religion?” President Bush isn’t asking for that, only for an up-or-down vote on judges. Bill Frist is complaining that the opposition to these nominees is primarily religious and he can actually point to this very editorial and prove his point in spades. This last line comes right out and says so; the Times believes that Democrats should be allowed to use a religious test on judicial nominees. That’s unconstitutional, pure and simple, but the Times is all for it. And that’s their definition of a “religious war” that they accuse Frist of starting. In reality it was the filibusters of these folks that called them on the carpet because of their religion. If there’s a religious war going on here, it’s one that the Democrats chose to invent and fight because, as the Times clearly says, they believe that a vote for these nominees is a vote to have one religion “dominate the entire country”. This is a pathetic scare tactic.
Ultimately, this editorial really has the whole situation upside down and backwards, which is apparently how the Times views the world.
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